AITP 002 — The Self as a Set of Relations with Manda Scott
Manda Scott traces the self as a set of relations: to body, to earth, to the wider web of life. The conversation moves through the neurophysiology of story, Nora Bateson’s wide-boundary thinking, Donella Meadows’s hierarchy of leverage points, and the two tasks Manda names as the core of shamanic work: give thanks, ask for help. Autoimmunity emerges here as a liminal state, a threshold where the body opens toward a different relationship to the entire living world. She trained as a veterinary surgeon in Glasgow, specialized in equine neonatal intensive care, and taught at the universities of Cambridge and Dublin. Forty years of shamanic practice, study with indigenous teachers in the UK and US, training in acupuncture and homeopathy, and an MA in Regenerative Economics from Schumacher College inform a body of work that moves across disciplines without asking permission.Born in Scotland at 318ppm CO2, Manda Scott trained as a veterinary surgeon, but is now an award-winning novelist, host of the Accidental Gods podcast and co-creator of the Thrutopia Masterclass. Best known for the Boudica: Dreaming series, her latest novel, Any Human Power, is a mytho-political Thrutopian thriller that explores the potential for a future we'd be proud to leave as our legacy. She believes that the way forward now is for everyone to craft open-hearted connections with all parts of ourselves, each other and the Web of Life. She lives with her partner, Faith, in the Shropshire Marches.Episode Timings[00:00] — Introduction and Manda’s path[00:09] — Svasta: health as self-knowledge[00:12] — Self-tolerance and the autoimmune narrative[00:16] — Thrutopian narratives and the boundaries of the human[00:18] — Nora Bateson, Donella Meadows, and the guide’s message[00:21] — Where do you end and begin?[00:24] — The neurophysiology of story[00:26] — Transference, suggestibility, and three medical stories for the same blood[00:29] — Vanessa Andreotti and the core wounding of separability[00:31] — Internal civil war and its alternatives[00:35] — N.K. Jemisin’s Broken Earth[00:37] — Thomas Hübl: trauma as frozen time[00:39] — Conflict as generative edge[00:44] — Autoimmunity as fulcrum[00:45] — The two tasks[00:47] — Beverly Lanzetta’s prayers[00:49] — Teachings from the hill[00:52] — Mantra and inner resonance[00:54] — ClosingReferences Mentioned- Nora Bateson — wide-boundary and narrow-boundary thinking; founder of the International Bateson Institute; author of Small Arcs of Larger Circles (2016) and Combining (2023). Her concept of “warm data” insists that relational information — the interdependencies between contexts — is what narrow-boundary analysis systematically excludes. https://norabateson.wordpress.com/about/- Donella Meadows — “Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System” (1997, Whole Earth), expanded in Thinking in Systems: A Primer (2008). The 12 leverage points ascend from parameters and buffers through rules and goals to paradigms, with the highest leverage being the capacity to transcend all paradigms. donellameadows.org- Vanessa Andreotti — Brazil-born decolonial scholar, author of Hospicing Modernity (2021). Her work on the belief in separability as the core wounding of Western modernity draws on teachings from an indigenous grandfather. decolonialfutures.net- Richard C. Schwartz — founder of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. The “internal civil war” framing appears throughout his work on parts and the Self. ifs-institute.com- Francis Weller — psychotherapist and author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief (2015). His distinction between trauma culture and initiation culture, and the image of the newborn expecting forty adoring gazes, draws on decades of soul-centered psychotherapy. francisweller.net- Thomas Hübl — contemplative teacher and author of Healing Collective Trauma (2020). His reframing of trauma as “a moment frozen in time” and the thawing process that restores flow and relationality. thomashuebl.com- N.K. Jemisin — The Broken Earth trilogy (The Fifth Season, The Obelisk Gate, The Stone Sky, 2015–2017). Three consecutive Hugo Awards. A far-future Earth where a sentient planet retaliates against civilisational extraction, and orogenes — people who can manipulate geological forces — are feared, enslaved, and used as living tools. nkjemisin.com- Beverly Lanzetta — interfaith theologian and contemplative, author of Path of the Heart: A Spiritual Guide to Divine Union (1985, expanded 2014). The prayer Laure quotes is from this text. Described as “a rare combination of mature spiritual wisdom and poetic quality that transcends confessional lines.” beverlylanzetta.netClassical Frameworks Referenced (by Laure)- Svasta (Sanskrit: स्वस्थ) — the Ayurvedic definition of health: being established in oneself. Not the absence of disease but the presence of self-knowledge.- Rakta Pitta (Sanskrit: रक्त पित्त) — a condition in which the metabolic fire (pitta) vitiates the blood (rakta), causing it to become too hot, too toxic, and to leak from its channels. The Ayurvedic frame for what allopathic medicine calls immune thrombocytopenia.- Qi deficiency with heat in the blood — the Chinese medicine frame for ITP-pattern bleeding. A very different story than “the body attacking its own cells.”Works by Manda Scott- Accidental Gods — podcast exploring how humanity navigates the meta-crisis toward a regenerative future. 200+ episodes. accidentalgods.life- Any Human Power (2024) — a Thrutopian mytho-political thriller, her most recent novel. mandascott.co.uk- Boudica: Dreaming series — four historical novels (Dreaming the Eagle, Dreaming the Bull, Dreaming the Hound, Dreaming the Serpent Spear, 2003–2006) exploring pre-Roman Britain through a shamanic lens.- Dreaming Awake — contemporary shamanic practitioner training, co-run with senior apprentice Louise Mayor. dreamingawake.co.uk- Thrutopia Masterclass — teaching writers to craft narratives that map pathways beyond dystopia and utopia into viable futures. thrutopia.lifeThe host: Laure Marin is an Ayurvedic consultant, bodywork practitioner, and writer based between Tiohtià:ke/Montréal and Kerala. I have lived with immune thrombocytopenia for over twenty-five years. Subscribe to the newsletter for long-form essays and episode companions: autoimmunetheory.comTheme music: « Tremblement » de Michaël Boudreau, from the album Terre.To listen: https://michaelboudreau.bandcamp.com/album/terreLink Tree: https://linktr.ee/michaelboudreau Get full access to Autoimmune Theory & Practice at www.autoimmunetheory.com/subscribe
